Well that's a bit overkill

"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee) 02/14/2020 at 10:51 • Filed to: None

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The TSA’s REAL ID  page contains a live countdown timer. 

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 10:59

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When I got my last drivers’ license, the BMV didn’t tell me this was a thing. It was maybe $5 more to get the Real ID certification on my license, but I needed to know to ask about it. So that was dumb. Good thing I rarely, if ever, fly. I still find it odd that I need Real ID or a passport to fly domestically. Seems overkill to me.

smobgirl > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:04

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Sadly, people are STILL going to be shocked when it happens. 

E90M3 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:04

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It might not seem relevant now, but it will in September. You could also just use a passport and not worry about it.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 11:07

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Xenophobia is real and strong unfortunately. I agree it’s overkill to need a real ID domestically. I keep procrastinating on getting a real ID as well

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 11:09

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There's nothing overkill about trying to set ID standards for all states to follow

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:14

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I mean, it’s a pretty clear violation of the 10th Amendment. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:16

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I can’t wait. TSA lines will be so much shorter for a few months.

Thomas Donohue > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 11:18

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O nly for a flight within the same state. If you’re flying from one state to another, it’s pretty much a F ederal affair.

Thomas Donohue > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:21

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I get emails twice a week that new locations in NJ are now accepting appointments to get a Real ID. Not once in ~20 times have I clicked on the link (sometimes within seconds of receiving ) were there any appoints available in the 90 day window they offered.

Either lots of people are signing up (instantly), or they aren’t too swift with the process yet.

I feel like I have better odds of getting Pearl Jam tickets.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 11:23

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It’s because states have been dragging their feet for upgrading their systems for  15 years. It dumb you need to pay extra

Textured Soy Protein > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:23

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My experience with those standards when I moved to Maryland a couple years ago and got my driver’s license was the only difference is there are a series of convoluted requirements of what combination of 4 total documents verifying your name and address that you need to provide.

Maryland has a web form that you can fill out where you say the first kind of document and then it’ll show you lists of other acceptable documents. I did this before going to the MVA (what Maryland calls the DMV). I got there and they had the information desk checking everyone’s documents before giving them a number to wait in line. Well over half the people in line in front of me got sent home to get different documents because they hadn’t brought the right stuff.

I, having used the web form, made it through the info desk gauntlet, only to have the lady at the window when my number got called tell me that the lease on my house was not acceptable because of certain typos/omissions my landlord’s realtor had put on the lease. Piddly little shit like in the blank for length of the lease, they only put the number 12 and not 12 months. The MVA lady said with a straight face, “I don’t know if this lease is for 12 months or 12 days, you can’t use it.”

Luckily this was a couple months after I moved, so I had already changed my address a while back with  my bank, and I was able to pull up a statement on my phone, save it as a PDF, email it to the MVA supervisor for them to print it out, and finally get my driver’s license.

atfsgeoff > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 11:44

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Soon they’ll start building TSA border checkpoints at state lines to make sure you have your papers

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 12:02

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You're not sacrificing any freedom, and the RealID is no harder to get than a regular one.

DipodomysDeserti > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 12:06

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Arizona decided to design a new ID a couple years ago which did not meet Real ID requirements. I was forced to get a new ID last year which I’ll have to replace again in [checks TSA clock] 229 days, 12 hours, 9 minutes and 24 seconds.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 12:09

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It is an added cost and I’m not allowed to enter a federal facility without it. Seems like a sacrifice of freedom to not be allowed to interact with my elected officials, no?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 02/14/2020 at 12:10

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MA has no additional cost to get a RealID. Are other states charging for it?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Textured Soy Protein 02/14/2020 at 12:12

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MA makes it easy. When I renew my license ne xt month I just have to bring my passport, social security, current license, and a bank statement ( or similar) and I can get upgraded for free.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 12:12

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Are some states charging for it? Mine isn’t. Also how often does one find themselves in a federal facility?

facw > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 12:12

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Only if you ignore two centuries of constitutional law interpretation. Regardless, it is clearly under the Federal Government’s scope to require this under the commerce clause (maybe an exception for flights within the same state) .

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 12:14

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Whatever state Ilikecars lives in

Dusty Ventures > Thomas Donohue 02/14/2020 at 12:14

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Jeez. I just walked into  my local AAA with the required documents, had it done in 20 minutes including the wait to be seen

facw > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/14/2020 at 12:14

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By shorter, you mean longer, while the TSA agent has to explain to the (extremely angry) person why they can’t fly instead of just waiving people through.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 12:17

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Yes, Ohio does. I find myself in one more often than expected.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 12:22

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Well if you would just stop murde ring and racketeering maybe you wouldn’t find yourself in Federal court so often then.

facw > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 12:24

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I don’t think it’s overkill. Seems likely to be a colossal shit show. As of last fall only 27% of people had a Rea l ID. And while you can bring alternate ID, only 42% of people have passports, and even then that only helps if they know to bring it. I hope that anyone flying now (and going at least back to Thanksgiving of last year) is being told that they won’t be able to fly soon (rather than relying on them reading signs). That won’t catch everyone, but being told their ID will soon no longer be good enough is a pretty direct way to force the issue. Ideally airlines would actually verify your ID as part of the ticketing process, much like they do with passports.

I am curious about one thing though. Currently you can fly without any ID by passing a special screening. I don’t know if that will still be possible under the Real ID rules. If not, it seems like a big problem since IDs are still going to be lost or stolen. If I’m pick pocketed in LA, will really I need to take Greyhound or Amtrak cross-country back? At least if you lose you passport, you can get some sort of replacement from a consulate, but it’s not like there’s a Massachusetts consulate in California. And if they do still allow that, then I feel bad for them, because they are going to be massively overwhelmed on 10/1.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 12:26

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IMO all mandatory federal documentation (ie, non-driving ID card) should be issued free of charge. 

Thomas Donohue > Dusty Ventures 02/14/2020 at 12:32

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For a goof, I checked again. I checked three different DMV locations, they are all the same. (those white dates in May are not open dates, no appts avail ).   Maybe it’s just me they are blocking.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 14:29

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Gotta justify all that TSA spending somehow.

Airport security is still theatre. 

haveacarortwoorthree2 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/14/2020 at 15:28

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The commerce clause cases in the 40s essentially killed the 10th Amendment, although there have been some more cases that breathe a little life into it. 

ranwhenparked > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 15:41

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I think that was mainly the states that were trying to avoid having to do it. You could pay extra to get a REAL ID compliant one if you wanted it, but the state was issuing non-compliant ones as the default, because they were hoping the standard would get overturned and they wouldn't have to switch over entirely. I know Pennsylvania, at least, was suing to try to get out of it, Ohio might have been involved in that, too.

ranwhenparked > BaconSandwich is tasty. 02/14/2020 at 15:48

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Pretty much, yeah. That’s why I’ve always advocated a mandatory 12 month waiting period after a major tragedy before considering any remedial legislation related to it. The TSA was created only a little over a month after 9/11 as a knee jerk “do something, do anything, but make sure its really big and expensive” response. You can’t make a well reasoned, measured, logical decision in the heat of the moment when everyone’s emotions are all whipped up.

The truth is the security we had in place on 9/11 was adequate. All you had to do was strengthen cockpit doors and ban box cutters and small knives from being carried on.

SmugAardvark > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 02/14/2020 at 19:04

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You say overkill. I say, wait until October 2nd, and there will be a line of complaints at every airport across the country from angry people that will claim they had no idea that they needed a Real ID, and that this was the first they had heard about it.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Textured Soy Protein 02/14/2020 at 20:49

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When I moved A) it was insane how many people went to RMV without their documents, then B) how many were told “you dont have to be here, you can do this online or through the mail.”

facw > ranwhenparked 02/14/2020 at 23:24

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You don’t actually have to ban knives. With the reinforced doors they aren’t getting into the cockpit with those. Sure the people on the plane are at some risk, but not any more than they’d be from a knife wielding attacker anywhere on the ground.

TSA actually tried to eliminate the knife ban, but flight attendant’s unions flipped out and TSA ultimately backtracked.

I don’t like the idea of banning remedial legislation though. It’s possible to implement smart rules after a tragedy , and it’s possible to implement dumb rules even with a waiting period.

TSA itself isn’t a huge problem, I don’t think they are any worse than the hodgepodge of airport security operations we had before 9/11. Yes much of what they do is theater, but that was the case before as well. I do think we didn’t need to create DHS, it’s constituent organisations  were fine beforehand.

ranwhenparked > facw 02/14/2020 at 23:41

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You’re right about that, if they hadn’t gotten into the cockpit, everything would have been a different story. I mean, what would they have done otherwise? They didn’t have any guns or explosives or poison gas or swords or bayonets or big knives. Do you know how long it would take for 5 people  to kill 85 people with box cutters? Their whole plan was getting into the cockpit and using their ability to crash the plane anytime they wanted to maintain control over everyone on board, without cockpit access, the whole thing was pretty toothless. 

facw > ranwhenparked 02/15/2020 at 01:36

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Yep, though granted, the German Wings crash revealed that planes carry a rescue axe in the cabin, which might have been able to breach the cockpit with enough time (sadly there wasn’t enough time). On the other hand, why should we worry about knives when there’s an axe on board.

ranwhenparked > facw 02/15/2020 at 08:56

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Im trying to figure out how they determined that 3.5oz or more of an explosive liquid could bring down a plane, but 3.4oz or less is safe. And also what prevents people who each bring 3.4oz of an explosive from meeting up on the plane and combining their supplies. Of course, since each traveller is permitted basically an unlimited amount of 3.4oz containers, that’s kind of moot.

And bottles of baby formula are totally exempted, because we all know terrorists would never endanger their own children or use them as pawns in an attack